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Isma listen: Eliminating prejudice against Arab and Muslim Australians

Consultations Homepage || Meeting Notes: 15 October 2003

Consultation with Tripoli and Mena Association Seniors Group, Sydney, 15 October 2003

The meeting was chaired by Mr Abdul Majid Zahra, Manager of Tripoli and Mena Association (TMA), and facilitated by Omeima Sukkarieh (notes) from HREOC. Also note-taking was Administrative Officer of TMA, Zeinab Rizk. The TMA Arabic Aged Worker Sam El Sayed also attended. 79 Arabic-speaking seniors attended, including both Muslims (the majority) and Christians. The consultation was conducted in Arabic.

Tripoli and Mena Association has been providing a service to the Arabic speaking community since 1975. Among many services, the TMA provides Home and Community Care (HACC) specifically for Arabic speaking people. The Association is open to anyone from the Arab speaking world, not only those from the Tripoli or Mena regions of Lebanon.

In his opening remarks, Mr Zahra made the following points:

  • "It is sad that the Bali bombing again has repercussions in our multicultural, diverse society with the targets again being Muslims and Arabic-speaking people because people associate them with the terrorists, their religious beliefs, their dress and appearance instead of considering them as Australians who love Australia as it is their home and they have a commitment to its laws, institutions and values. Under our anti-discrimination and other laws it is unacceptable to single out, persecute, discriminate and attack Australians because of their beliefs, language and culture and their ethnic origin and the government should show leadership by condemning such attacks publicly."
  • "As Australian citizens we find it disturbing that Arabic-speaking Australians are fearful that at any time the police can invade their homes, search and confiscate documents and arrest anyone and take them away and hold them in custody for any length of time. That they can be stopped at airports, other public places and are searched and humiliated in public because of suspicions and assumptions that they may be terrorists. Women are attacked because of their mode of dress and young people cannot concentrate on their schooling because they are fearful that at any time they could be arrested. And that our politicians in Parliament are questioning the form of dress worn by Arabic-speaking Australian Muslim women and proposals are made in Parliament, the most sacred of places, for legislation to be passed to ban their dress because it is assumed that they might be terrorists hiding bombs under their clothes."
  • "The principles and ideals of multiculturalism should be our guiding light in times of national and international unrest and crises and the government of the day should provide the leadership in allaying the fears of the people, condemning attacks and discrimination of any groups in the community by people, the media, the authorities, and put watchdogs in place to ensure that any emergency, temporary protective powers granted by the Parliament are not abused by any section of the society."

What are your experiences of discrimination and vilification?

The consultation focused mainly on the experiences of discrimination encountered by the participants and the impacts this has had on their lives. Incidents of verbal and physical abuse while driving or in public space such as shopping centres or on the street were most notable. However, the majority of participants most clearly expressed their frustration about the experiences they had with the police. Most participants had either directly experienced discrimination or had a family member who had. The opening remarks made by one participant set the scene for the rest of the discussion.

"As you are all aware, after specific incidents and events overseas and in Australia, the Arabs and the Muslims are experiencing the worst level of discrimination they have ever experienced, and our image as either Arabs or Muslims is very low and very negative and some people think we are terrorists and many of us do not understand why. We have young children and they have young children and we need to make our presence felt in a very positive way. We do love this country. I always hear you praising and blessing this country and people don't understand that we don't want anything to happen to this country. As citizens of Australia, we also lived in times of 'terrorism' overseas and now we come here and are accused of being the very people we left our countries to get away from. We know these things are happening in the streets, shops, media, etc, and we believe this is serious."

"Before 11 September, from the time of the 90s, the community, Muslim, Arabs, Christians, have experienced it all; since the time that they invaded the Muslim world in the 90s. We consider that our kids and their kids should have the same rights."

One participant had never experienced discrimination and was quite happy that neither have her children.

"I live at Georges Park and I have ten children and I have lived here for 30 years. I have three boys, and no-one has ever gone near them, ever touched them, or asked them questions. My boys own a refrigerator place. I have seven girls. They all wear the hijab and they all studied at University. They're happy and relaxed. No-one says anything to us. I go to all suburbs and am treated with the highest respect."

Experiences on the street

One woman talked about an experienced which she encountered while walking on the street.

"One time, a car went past and in it was a Lebanese man with a bottle of drink. He drank it and then threw it at me. I told him 'Thank you very much'. He looked at me and kept driving. He was Christian Lebanese so it's not just the Australians doing this."

Experiences with the provision of services

One participant felt unfairly treated in the provision of services.

"Wherever we go and get services, as soon as they see us that we cover our hair they start mocking us and not serve us properly ... Centrelink, Department of Housing, government services, the ones that you rely on most; the people there just stop answering you. They ignore us."

Defunding of support services was also a concern.

"The parliament was going to stop the funding of various organisations and if they do that, who else are we going to rely on? For many of us they are our support."

Experiences while driving

"...on several occasions, my daughter and I have been in the car and people, Australians, who knows, they stick their finger up at us."

" ...about a month ago, I was in the car with my daughter, and this man yells out from another car, 'Go home. You are all criminals'."

Experiences at the mosque

"Yesterday there was people who walked past the mosque and spat at it and there are others who give out magazines outside the mosque to people coming in and going out that has inappropriate material in it of naked women and things like that. This is disgusting and we would never even think to do that outside churches. May god not bless them!"

Experiences at public transport

"I experienced something not long ago when I was at the train station. I couldn't get through the ticket machine because I had so many shopping bags with me and I wanted to go through the gate but the ticket master said, 'No, go through the ticket machine, especially you!' and I was carrying so much I couldn't."

Experiences with health services

"I had an experience not long ago when my daughter had a really high fever and I called the ambulance and they came after a long time and they said that there was nothing they can do because there are too many people at the hospital. And I asked him if that was the only hospital available because I couldn't believe it but he didn't pay any attention. He just looked at her and left and I swear my daughter was in my arms dying. I ended up having to take her myself."

Experiences in employment

Two participants spoke about their sons' experiences in employment. One son threatened to make a complaint before any changes were made and the other left his job due to the overwhelming abuse.

"My son works at Boston Market and his boss would call him so many names and make fun of his religion and treat him really badly, and he was 15 years old. After my son wanted to make a complaint to the person higher than his boss, his boss sucked up to him and was trying to be nice because he knows he has done something wrong."

"I have been here for more than 30 years and I consider this country to be more my country than anywhere else in the world. But after September 11, and especially after the gang rape incidents, things got so much worse. My son works in a company in the city and he had a lot of problems, especially after the gang rapes. He said to me that he was going to leave work otherwise he would have committed a crime because of what other workers were doing and saying to him. Imagine that it has to get to this point where it would drive someone to leave work."

Experiences with police

Experiences with police were mentioned throughout the consultation and sparked a significant reaction of frustration felt by most of the participants about the role of police and their protective powers. The experiences participants had with police were mostly as a result of driving incidents and incidents of physical abuse where police were called, which participants felt police did not take as seriously as they expected.

"We were in Revesby with my daughter and we had the little kids with us and my daughter is the one driving, and we found a man suddenly crossed the road without a crossing, without anything and she almost hit him. My daughter said to him 'Didn't you see me, I could have hit you?' and he said 'F ...Muslim ...' and he stormed up to the car and he came to hit her, the poor thing. What a man, he was as big as a bear and he wanted to come and hit her and he showed us his bum. She started crying and she was so shaken she couldn't drive anymore. The man left and we called the police and the police said, 'Sorry we can't come' because there was a major accident nearby so all the police were there. So we went to the police station and told them what happened and that he showed us his bottom in the middle of the street. They called us to go back and we went to the police station for help with the number plate. But they couldn't do anything, what are we going to go back for?"

When asked if this incident made her hesitant to approach the police in the future she said:

"No I'm not afraid of going to them for help if I get robbed or anything. Why should I be afraid? The police are not going to kill me. The police help people, but they used to help people more but not now; they have stopped helping anyone."

One participant stated that she has experienced many incidents while driving, however felt that she could not complain about any of them to police because of her lack of trust in them.

"Many times I am driving, I would be, for example, on an intersection or give way sign, making sure that it is safe to go, I would find someone behind me who would beep at me or yell things or swearing at me; they want me to drive without it being safe enough to do so. They want you to have an accident. And every time you move a little forward they stick their finger up at me and they swear at Muslims specifically. In terms of me, this is one thing that I have experienced of many things and if I want to go and complain to the person that is doing this to me that would make it worse, so who do I go and complain to? To the police? To do that, I need to have trust in them. You need to have trust in the police in order to go and complain to them, even though my rights are protected by law when it comes to this."

Another woman shared her daughter's experience.

"At one time, not a day went past when each day, my daughter's car would be damaged. Each time it rained, they'd damage her car. Three times they destroyed her car. I told the police and they said they had to see but where would they catch them? They were destroying it at night so who would there be to catch them out? We'd fix the car up thinking that we couldn't do anything about it. In the end, they burnt the car. We called the police and they filed a report and took photos but they didn't do anything for us. They needed witnesses, but we knew who it was. They don't have any emergency steps they can act on. There's nothing, so are we only going to rely on the police?"

One participant was clearly frustrated and questioned why an Arabic-speaking police officer refused to speak to her in Arabic when she attended the police station to complain about an incident.

"I went into the police station once and I spoke to an Arabic man and I spoke to him in Arabic but he spoke to me in English. But why did he speak to me in English? I was trying to tell him what happened to me. Why wouldn't he talk to me in my language, the language that I understand? He should speak to me in my language, because he is Arabic-speaking and I am Arabic-speaking. That's what the law wants, but if I don't know how to speak English and he knows how to speak Arabic, why wouldn't you want to make it easier for the person seeking help from you."

Two participants talked about separate incidents of violence which they personally experienced. Both felt that not enough had been done.

"Five years ago, I was with a friend in a shopping centre. We were pushing a trolley home and I got to the door to open it, but a man came up and started talking to us in English from his car about our religion. My house is number 4 and I was standing outside number 5. He got out and I was nearly at my front door. As I was unlocking my door to go in, he saw my handbag and snatched it. I pulled it at one side and he pulled it at the other. He dragged me to the bottom while he held the bag so it snapped. He took the hand bag and I was left with the handle. The bag had about $750 in it and also a chain worth around $2,000 and an English Lira. I called the police and they couldn't give us anything in return. They just asked us to come in and identify if any pictures that they had looked like the thief. I went to the hospital and stayed two months because of the injuries I had from it because he dragged me a few levels down the stairs and nobody did anything. I didn't know what more they could do but it doesn't feel like it's enough."

"From two years and seven months ago exactly, I was going to do my shopping and I was at a crossing and then another lady walked in front of me to cross and she was crossing and then a car ran over me and pushed me at least a few metres and I was lying on the floor and standers by stopped [the driver] and then called the police. I took him to court and sued him but the police weren't supporting it because they didn't charge him. I broke a bone in my vertebrae and about a month ago they told me that I lost the case, so I have to pay for all my legal costs and the ongoing medical expenses, and that doesn't include all the pain and the things I can't do anymore. [The driver] was an Aussie man and he wasn't charged and there were witnesses and the police and Bankstown Hospital got his details and the details of all the witnesses. The lawyer was Arabic and he said he couldn't do much more. I couldn't believe it. They say they can't do anything about you being abused or even if you give them a number plate. But when it is a crime like running someone over and you have the driver, then still they say they can't do anything. Forget the discrimination, what about the crime?"

The policing of young people was also discussed.

"Another thing, just like the brother said, they [ie the Police] are all racist and just as soon as they know someone is Muslim, they exaggerate it and make things worse. The other day, my son was driving the car and the police stopped him and he was at the speed limit and driving fine. But when [the police officer] stopped him, he searched the car, his clothes, [my son] had to take his socks off, and I'm sure it happened because he was a Muslim, because his name was Ali. My son told me he was there for about an hour waiting until they did all their searches. He felt humiliated. I asked him, did you do anything wrong and he swore to God he hadn't done anything or had anything at all. This is what is happening to us and our children these days."

One participant was clearly angry.

"Basically, all people know that the police are on our kids' backs and the kids are causing problems because of the police. The police are the original cause. The police are provoking all the people. We are making problems? Anything that happens to anybody, in a car, in the office, in everything, the police look at you, breathes in and blames you more. Why do we come and go to them? The police are the cause of all the problems. You go and complain to them but they don't listen. Another person will go, from anywhere else, and he'll blame you. What can you do? People must know that the police are causing all the problems. You go to park your car and behind you, the police would've already written the fine. The police are the ones that are doing all this. They are provoking people to do things so that they can catch them."

One participant shared her positive experience with police.

"One time, I lost my son and about six policemen looked for him with me in Bankstown and brought him back to me, pampered. They had given him toys."

Causes and impacts

There was a general feeling in the group that the biggest impact of experiences is feeling unprotected and with a diminished sense of security. A few participants have even thought about leaving Australia.

"If someone has lived here for 30 years and has married his children off in Australia and even has grandchildren here, now after the September 11 incident where they have been stepping on Muslims, has anyone ever thought about leaving this country and going back to live in their own country? I know I have."

"We can't ignore that this discrimination that the community is experiencing is having an effect on people's lives. Trust me, I myself am sometimes afraid to leave my house and even go to the shopping centre, and my wife is like this too. I can't even be comfortable going into the community. We are thinking about going overseas but it is not an easy decision."

The influence of the media

The question of labelling and negative portrayal of Muslims and Lebanese was raised as an issue, especially when crimes are committed by people born and raised in Australia.

"Why do they say Lebanese Muslim when a crime is committed but why do people who kill, who are Greek, or Italian or Jewish, or Catholic or whatever, they never say their ethnicity or religion? I mean for a young person who was born here and they say 'Lebanese Muslim' and that kid would not know anything about Lebanese or his own religion, or anything. He is the son of Australia, and that's all he knows ... We are not saying that this country is bad. On the contrary we love it, and it is better than our countries. It gave us our freedom and rights more than any country. But why do they need to target Muslims?"

"When they shot at Lakemba police station many years ago, they turned out to be Australian, so why didn't they say that? So everyone thought it was the Lebanese because of previous problems. But they were Australian."

"In regards to the experiences of discrimination that is being felt by our community, they [the government and the media] are creating the discrimination. They are making the Australians hate us, especially the women who wear the hijab. They must change the politics, because they are provoking the Arabs and the Muslims especially. One example is the rapists they sentenced for 55 years. They should be punished and trialled as criminals; not as criminals with a particular religion or from a particular ethnicity. They are Australian by origin and nationality."

The influence of the government

Participants were critical of the government's lack of compassion towards refugees as well as its involvement in international affairs.

"150 people drowned, they were Muslims, refugees, now isn't that discrimination? And the government didn't even blink when it happened. You get so angry about these things."

"Leave Australia as it is, in its own security and don't interfere with global and international affairs. It is only causing more problems."

Reporting discrimination and the law

The majority of participants had very little or no knowledge of either state or federal laws regarding racial or religious discrimination. After the state and federal law was explained briefly, some participants questioned the relevance and purpose of the consultation and were clearly more frustrated.

One participant summed up the general feeling among some of the participants.

"If the law doesn't cover Muslims then what are we doing here meeting today telling you about our experiences."

Another participant asks:

"Is speaking here going to make a difference to these departments and agencies?"

Participants were reassured of the importance of their voices being heard by both the facilitator and the chair of the meeting.

"It's very important for us to hear your voices because your voices are what make change."

What more could be done to fight anti-Muslim prejudice and discrimination?

Public education and education for service providers

"The people who work with government departments and community organisations should be educated about the anti-discrimination law and complaints processes so they can educate the community and know also that they shouldn't be breaking these laws."

Promoting positive public awareness

"Media should be used as a tool. Why don't HREOC use the media for publicity? And there should be more Arabs and Muslims on television and on commercials, in a positive way, not as the bad or uneducated ones."

Police and community relations

Police education:

"The police should be taught more about how to work with the Arabs and Muslims and issues that they may face also."

"When they are recruiting police and they are going through all those courses during training, they should teach them about multiculturalism, about different cultures and not just to cops in highly populated areas with Arabs and Muslims but also in outer areas, like Macquarie Fields, etc. it should be broad education not just in certain areas and it should be compulsory."

Taking complaints seriously:

"In regards to the police especially, but others also, we want to know that if we went to complain to the police about anything that they are going to take it seriously and that they are going to pay attention to us."

Providing community support and safety:

"The police in Campsie and Bankstown especially need to talk more to the ordinary people in the community, not just the leaders. They need to talk more to Muslims about how to protect themselves and what they can do to protect themselves and what to do and who to call if something happens to them. They need to be also more on the main street so people can feel more protected and the others think twice about being abusive. And so they can see things happening for themselves."

Education in the Muslim community

Better education in the Muslim community as well as community unity was also mentioned.

"Our problem is that we don't stand united enough in the front of injustices, especially to the Parliament. If we don't stand united together for ourselves then who will? Our kids don't even know anything about their heritage or their culture. They know only that they are Muslim, or Arab, but that's all. They don't know what that means! So we need to educate our own first."

One participant was critical of the community itself and believed the community should be more self reflective.

"A person who chooses something can sometimes lie to others or even lie to himself. We brought our children up and taught them and sent them to university and we haven't had any problems with discrimination. I urge people to teach their kids, not let them run around on the streets here and there. I see a lot of wrong things happening, if they are girls or boys. The girls walk around in their hijab whistling and screaming in the streets in front of people. I mean, I see more people wearing the hijab in Australia than when I go overseas and I see here also girls in hijab yelling in the street and they are loud, and we need to take responsibility for this. We know there's discrimination, but we can't dwell on it. There is discrimination, but there are people in the community who help exacerbate that discrimination and make it worse for everyone else."

"Why don't the Islamic organisations join together instead of being so separate and fighting for the funding separately?"

Providing community support

"Tripoli and Mena Association is happy to hold further information sessions or support sessions where these issues can be addressed further and I think all community organisations should do this"

"From all the community leaders we need one who can send the voices of the people to those that matter and are responsible. We don't have a leader like that yet but we need one."

The role of the government and complaints bodies in response to media.

"In regards to what we are explaining to you is happening to us against Arabs and Muslims, this is really affecting us because they are creating divisions and differences between the citizens of this country. It's the government's job to put things out, especially in the media. The media, whether it be in the newspapers or on TV should do fair and this should be the government's role. If the government wants people to be friends then it should reduce the problems that are being advertised. They are affecting our children and their future so that means that Australia because we also worry about it the same way that we worry about our own mother country. The government should stop the attacks on the Muslims."

"I have something to say. If it's in the blood then you can't change it. There should be supervision by the Australian government on all the different types of media, be it heard, read or viewed. There are different kinds of people for each issue. The normal people who write in the newspaper attack the Muslims more than the rest of the media categories. Even the Arabic newspapers should be supervised because they also pick at and discriminate. The Australian government should stop even these small attacks. From the media, we know what is going on. That's why the media should be fair for all Australians and for all the communities in Australia. HREOC needs to focus on laws for the media to become more fair and responsible."

Community safety and security

"We would like those that can protect us to do so, because we walk in the street and we're scared. We are citizens of Australia not strangers. We just want security because we are not feeling safe or secure at all. We walk in the street and we are afraid; we go into train stations and we are afraid; wherever we go we are afraid."

"We want a solution for this problem. My aunty and I just the other day were walking in the street and there were drunk people in the street and they were very abusive but we can't do anything. It's just a feeling of self security also. I mean we can't keep living like this either. We need to feel protected even if it's not possible. We need to feel that we are an important part of this community also."

"You [HREOC] are a big organisation and there are many of you so make us feel secure because we don't feel like human beings anymore."

Other comments

"They call us 'wogs'? They are all 'wogs', except for the Aborigines. Their ancestors came here in chains and shackles around their ankles. We get embarrassed sometimes when they say this to us but we forget that they are the same as us."

"I have been here for 37 years and I say thank you and that I have real sorry in knowing that this is what has become of this country. It is sad to see it become like this."