HREOC Website: Isma - Listen: National consultations on eliminating prejudice against Arab and Muslim Australias
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Notes: 23 June, 2003
Consultation with Muslim women
hosted by the United Muslim Women's Association, Sydney, 23 June 2003
The meeting was chaired
by Ms Maha Krayem Abdo, President of the United Muslim Women's
Association, and facilitated by Omeima Sukkarieh (notes) and Susanna Iuliano
from HREOC. It was attended by 40 invited participants. Omeima interpreted
the Arabic.
What are your experiences
of discrimination and vilification?
Experiences with neighbours
"I have a Christian
neighbour, a Lebanese Christian. We were very close as neighbours. We
had limits but we used to visit each other from time to time. When I
started covering my face, she stopped talking to me. Suddenly I was
no-one without any reason. What I did was I ignored it but then her
sister came from Lebanon and I said look, I'm a Muslim and my religion
teaches me to be kind to all people no matter what their background
is. So when her sister came from Lebanon I went and I said 'Welcome.
I'm glad your sister's here'. And then she started changing. We have
to be positive. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It's not
always a positive outcome. But we have to keep on trying and do what
our religion teaches us to do."
Experiences in public places
including shopping centres
A number of participants
described not only their experiences of abuse in public but the impacts
on them of those experiences.
"About a month
ago I went to the shopping centre in Lakemba and this man must have
seen me leave my house and followed me and told me to go back to my
own country and to get lost. I was so humiliated and I called my sister
to come and meet me. I was scared because there was no-one in the street.
It took me about 7 days to go back out but only because I urgently needed
to buy some groceries because my husband works long hours and couldn't
do it.""I was parking
my car in Campsie and my car accidentally touched another car and someone
standing at the shop door shouted out 'Where do you think you live.
Go back to your own country; you deserve to drive a camel!'""An incident happened
to my mother during the first Iraqi war on the train where a man pulled
her scarf that he almost choked her. Because I cover my face I get very
abused and get called names such as 'Darth Vader', 'Batman', all of
it. This happens everywhere I go. One lady was calling me names from
her car while we were driving and I was so distracted that I hit another
car. People in the shopping centres start shaking their heads and once
I told this woman who was doing that to be careful otherwise she might
break her neck. There is so much negativity even with people who serve
you and are meant to be doing their job. From that time over ten years
ago my mother does not catch the train anymore and has relied on me
ever since.""I used to always
go down to the city as a day out with my kids but a year ago, I was
physically abused and since then I no longer step out of the house alone,
not a train to the city or anything.""It frightens the
children also. An old woman told my daughter off and she's only 15 years
old and what happened after that was that my daughter stopped going
to tutoring on Saturday because she no longer wants to catch public
transport. This happens often.""I have a daughter
who looks like an Australian and as if she isn't Lebanese. The first
time, an Australian woman saw me standing at the bus stop with my daughter
and she said 'I don't know how an Australian woman can put her daughter
with a Muslim woman'. So I just started laughing. I didn't say anything,
I just laughed, because she was my daughter. The second time I went
to the city to walk around with my daughter again and a woman said to
her friend, 'See that woman; she has brought the neighbour's daughter
to be with her.' I thought it was funny. People just think that I bring
along my daughter's friend or someone else's daughter and take her out
with my kids. They look at me as if they are afraid for her safety or
disgusted at the thought or something.""I've always lived
in areas where there are not many Muslims, so I think that's got a lot
to do with it. I walk with my son and you hear people saying 'Osama
Bin Laden, look at him'. I would go to the day-care centre in North
Sydney and of course there are very few women in hijab and the mothers
would be like 'Oh God, what's she doing here?'""I was shopping
at Grace Bros recently and I was buying some stuff and this lady was
following me and staring at me. All the time she was looking at me and
I just kept walking away from her. I just stopped shopping and I hadn't
finished."
Experiences in public transport
Several participants
described experiences they had at airports or on planes.
"About three
months ago we were coming from Lebanon and we were traveling from Dubai
to Australia and there were three seats: two for me and my husband and
one lady was sitting. As soon as we wanted to get into our seats, she
looked at us and when she saw us coming in, she called the air hostess
and said 'I want to move'. I was really, really upset because we didn't
even sit in our seats and as soon as she saw me of course, because you
know I was covered, she moved. From Dubai to Singapore she was sitting
separate from us. In Singapore there were more people flying so she
had to come back. But then we said to her 'Maybe you are not comfortable
sitting next to us. Maybe they will find you another spot to sit with
someone else'. We tried to find her another seat. And then she started
to relax and talk to us.""I was coming
back from overseas two years ago and in the quarantine area this lady
took me to a special room and put all my luggage through this machine
I hadn't seen before and every single thing from my luggage was out
and all over the place and they asked me a question I hadn't even heard
before 'Do you have a weapon? Do you have a knife with you?' And actually
I had a knife and it was in my luggage because I had brought some stuff
from my house there and I had completely forgotten about it. She asked
me again 'Do you have a weapon?'I said 'You can see I have no weapon'."
"You set the
beeper off sometimes and it could be anything when you walk through.
And the moment you set them off it's like all the eyes are on you and
you know they're asking whether or not you could be a terrorist."
Experiences in the job market
Two women described
the difficulties faced by their sons in gaining employment because of
their given names - both Ahmad.
"An ad in the
paper wrote that they wanted people to work, and they wanted a male
and they specified an age. My son Ahmad went with his two sisters. They
went in there knowing that they also wanted females. My daughter went
in first and the lady saw her. My daughter is a teenager and she's coloured
her hair and she's fair with blue eyes. She looks Aussie not Lebanese.
She finished and she went outside. My other daughter also went in and
the lady thought the same of her because they both look alike. And the
girl's names seem western, not like the boy's name. When she asked him
what his name was and he told her it was Ahmad, she straight away said
'No'. He went home and told me that he felt like putting a bomb underneath
her to blow her up because she just kept shaking and shouting and she
wouldn't keep quiet. He told her that he didn't want the job. ... To this
day my son still can't find work. He's sitting at home. He told me that
he wanted to change his name because his name is Ahmad and he can't
find work.""My son's name
is Ahmad. From his name, they won't employ him. He changed his name
now because he works for Building Agents. They call him Allan now. And
they gave him the job straight away. There are so many people who have
changed their names and I was wondering why; but now I know.""There was
one thing that happened to my son. He has a plaster company and after
he finished the job, a Greek owner of the house asked him 'Where are
you from?' And he said 'I'm a Muslim'. He paid some of what he owed
him for the job and when he was supposed to pay him the remainder after
he finished the job, he swore at the Muslims and said he refused to
pay the rest of what he owed and 'what are you going to do about it?'
My son said 'I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to come to
you, and I know where you live and if you don't give me my money I will
hurt you, like you are hurting me. I want what you owe me.' My husband
who worked with them a few days to help out got a phone call from the
Greek guy telling him that his son was threatening him and when he asked
him why he told him the story but said that he was only joking around
with him. So my husband told him to just pay what he owes. So he paid
them. I told them after that not to tell anyone they're Muslims because
we don't want any problems after the war on Iraq."
Experiences with health and
other services
One participant described
the experience of one of her clients with a community health nurse following
the birth of her third baby.
"She's a convert
to Islam and she got her third baby. She named him Mohammad and he's
the most beautiful red head little boy. Anyway, one of the community
health nurses rang her up at home and said to her 'I've got to come
and give him a check'. Her [client's] name is very Australian. Everything
was really calm. There was no problem whatsoever. [Then the nurse asked]
'What did you call your baby?' And she said 'Mohammad'. The nurse said
'Oh is it safe?' And [the mother] had no idea what to say. She froze.
She rang me up straight away and she told me what happened and she didn't
know what she meant: Is it safe to call the baby Mohammad? Is it safe
for her to come? She actually meant, 'Is it safe for me to come to your
house?' The nurse has got her information so distorted in so many ways
that she has no idea what she's talking about. ... the name has actually
triggered all those bad feelings in this person."
Another described
the following experience which occurred not long after the first Gulf
War.
"This incident
happened nine years ago. I gave birth in the hospital. It was when the
war started that they started showing this racism. I gave birth and
I wrote on the application that I can't breast feed straight away and
I needed some food for my daughter. My daughter was hungry. I'd put
her on my breast and there was no milk so she would still be hungry.
It was three days later that the nurse gave me a paper to sign at 12
midnight and asked me that if my daughter was hungry then she would
give her a bottle. No-one tried to help me or even asked me where I
was from. I accepted that but the day that I was leaving to go home,
a blonde nurse came to give my daughter a hepatitis needle. Until now,
I will never forget how she gave her that needle. I always say 'God
never forgive her'. She put the needle in my daughter's thigh and twisted
it in her thigh. All the hate, she put forward. I had just arrived so
I didn't know how to speak English."
Experiences with police
Most police-related
incidents reported involved policing of driving, especially involving
young male drivers. The participants were critical of what they perceived
to be over-policing, rudeness and lack of respect as well as one violent
incident.
"The police
are the ones that are doing the discriminating. We were at the markets
working and after we were driving to go home and the police stopped
us and asked my son-in-law for his license but he was so rude about
it. He was almost being provocative as if he wanted us to cause trouble.
The lady who was sitting at the back, a relative, wasn't wearing her
seatbelt. She was asked to get out and she did although we thought that
was strange. I don't know why but he [police officer] was very aggressive.
I got out and tried to defend her and he pulled my hair. This happened
three months ago."After that
the girl was hit. He physically abused her. Her husband got out and
there was a lot of yelling. They shot spray [ie capsicum spray] into
her eyes and they sprayed it at her husband too and then me. They called
for back up. They put them in a jeep [ie a panel van], and my daughter
in a jeep. They left me on the road. I asked them not to leave me behind.
I kept yelling to them 'I can't speak English. Take me anywhere. Take
me home. I can't speak English.' He said to me 'Just shut up you old
lady, you big lady, you pig. You're going to die here.' And when he
said that, I told him that he was a pig and 'You will die here, I won't'.
"So he dragged
my son in law in front of all the cars to a bush area where no-one could
see him and he sat on him and started beating him up. When I saw that,
my daughter-in-law begged me to tell them to get off him and I told
him 'Get off him you pig, you've stopped him from breathing'. He told
me that I was the pig and I was going to die here. I got back onto the
road and called out to the people to come and see what the police are
doing. People obviously are scared of police when they see them, and
must have thought that I must have done something wrong. A car passed
and I stopped it and asked for help. The guy was happy to help and when
I told him the story, he asked if I wanted to use the telephone and
I told him that I didn't know anyone's number. The police saw this guy
try to help and as the police neared him, the guy told me that he couldn't
help me so he got in the car and drove off. A guy came from our village
in Al Minia, he stopped and asked me what was wrong and when I told
him the story he told me that they are bastards whoever they are, and
he told me to get in the car. The police tried to approach him but he
just took me and left. I don't know what happened to my daughter and
my son-in-law at that time."I completed
a first complaint claim in the court against the police and the last
one is in 2-3 weeks time. They [ie the police] told us that they wanted
to take it to court. But, Thanking Allah, we were the ones who won the
claim. Now the lawyers say that we've got 100% chance of winning the
claim. I put the best lawyers and they took $2,500 just so that I have
a chance of winning. We don't want anything; we just want to know what
police think they are doing."
Another participant
also described an incident in which she was personally involved.
"I was stopped
once by the police for RBT on Canterbury Rd. It was Ramadan and we were
fasting and I finished the prayer. It was 11 at night. I took my mum
home and then it was 12 midnight. I came back home and I was driving
on my own and my little girl was at the back. She was strapped in and
everything. He [the policeman] says to me 'Can you take the RBT?' I
said to him that I'm badly asthmatic, especially after I have my 'iftar'
[break fasting]. I tried to do it but it was really bad. I couldn't
do it because I hadn't had my puffer all day. The policewoman then says
to me 'I can't let you go until you do the test'. I said 'Look, I'm
not going to have it done from now 'til tomorrow morning because I haven't
got my asthma puffer with me'. She says to me 'Okay, I'll ask the constable
then'" She went and asked him and he said 'Okay, let her go'" I know
that a lady with a hijab and at 12 midnight is not usual and I told
her that I came from the mosque and I'm taking my mum home, I haven't
got my asthma puffer. She kept me for five minutes trying to puff and
the more I puff, the worse I get. The way they treat the people, it
should be more respectable than that."
Participants discussed
the policing of young Arab male drivers.
"My son now
is not allowed to drive. He's 22 and he's working. How am I supposed
to take him around driving for hours? Just because of their looks?"
"Or they give
them a defect on their car. Don't worry; my son's got one as well."
"I went to
court because of this. They said that my son has been caught many times
without a license but how do you expect him to get to work?""It happened
to my son many times. If they were driving and very slowly, they would
stop them all the time before my street even if they were not doing
anything. They just stop and check the van and sometimes the boys can't
take it. It's their pride and when they speak to them very tough and
this is where the problems start."
The following incidents
were said to have occurred at Sydney train stations.
"Stirring trouble
against the school students, that's the most important thing. School
students are not going to tolerate that. They're going to react violently
to the way the police are acting. I'm the P&C president and I wanted
to go the station for five days in a row to see how the police were
reacting to the students and it was really bad. ... They [police] were
walking around stirring trouble. Okay they were going to open up their
bag, that's the law. They opened up their bags. They asked them, 'Have
you got tickets?' Okay, the boys have got the tickets for the trains.
They get them from school. They don't have to pay money for trains anyway.
They get them from the schools. 'Can I see your tickets?' One of the
students said 'I haven't got it because I left at home. It was in my
other school pants and I came with different pants today.' She said
to him 'Naughty, naughty, naughty. You stand there. I'm going to charge
you for that.' Why is she talking to him like that? He's only a student.
He's only in year 8; he's only 13. This is why our boys get really angry
at the police officers.""I've got
an issue too. When the boys went on the train - I'm talking about the
mature boys, not the year 8 and 9 - went on the train to the rally on
the first time (that was the anti-war rally and that was authorized).
[On their way back at Strathfield Station] they found 12 police officers
in blue uniform. ... Anyway the boys were told to go on their knees, put
their hands behind their backs. As soon as the train stopped they got
in the train quickly and said 'Get up boys. Put your hands behind your
backs and go on your knees'. The boys 'What did we do? We just came
from the rally?' The police asked one of the ladies - an Australian
lady who was sitting down - 'Have they been naughty or breaking things
on the station?' She said 'No, I haven't seen anything'. The boys said
'What did we do sir?' [Reply was] 'Shut up! Don't you talk!' Like that,
you know, it's rude. And one of the boys had a booklet called 'Get Street
Smart'; they've got solicitors for under the age of 18, you can ring
up at anytime. And then the boys said 'We've got this booklet, sir'.
And he said to him 'This is out of date!' Anyway, he humiliated them,
he insulted them badly, verbally and everything."The boys came
up and told me what they did. I took the incident up on behalf of three
boys. They were really badly humiliated by the police officers. They
rang up the high school and apologised on behalf of those police officers,
the way they treated our boys. But what's the apology going to do after
the humiliation in front of all those people on the train. It's really
disgusting. Anyway, they sent an apology letter [saying] 'We want to
come and meet the boys. I want to take a picture and put it in the Torch
newspaper and we're going to give them presents.' I said "I don't want
that to happen in my school. I'm the P&C president and I don't want
that. I don't think that parents would be happy with that at all. I
don't want my boys to be identified and to be told by the police. They're
going to pick on them, of course.' If they wanted to be nice, they would've
been nice from the beginning. We don't want any apologies."
The women described
the way young men especially react to such treatment by the police.
"They react
violently. They've been abused a lot and the students have that limit."
"You feel that
the boys are really tense. They answer back, the boys. They speak to
us and respect us but the boys and girls, you feel they [ie police]
provoke them.""Our children
now when they see the police they run away from them, even if the child
hasn't done anything wrong, he just gets scared and runs.""My sons are
young men and maybe if someone said anything to them they are going
to say something back and that might end up hurting them. Sometimes
I don't want to tell my sons what I go through so they don't get so
upset."
Other impacts
The group briefly
discussed the way racist abuse reduces their ability to participate in
parent groups and other activities.
"I think that
most people here find it hard enough to feel secure and safe at home
to be able to go into an environment and then having to put up with
more of [the same]. If we're more stable then we can go into the schools
and it's not a big deal. You can overcome some of the harassments and
discrimination that come your way. But if you're already dealing with
your own experiences then it's not fair to have to put more responsibility
on the women. We find that most women want to be involved in canteens,
want to be involved in P&C meetings. But when you go in there and you
feel like you get treated like you're unwanted and everybody feeling
like you've got a bomb hidden underneath your hijab, then you don't
want to go.""It happened
to me in one of the schools and I tried to overcome it but the principal
was the one who was bad, it wasn't the parents themselves. So I had
to pull myself out of that school. I did because I did not find any
appreciation from the principal. ... And since then none of the parents
have turned up because they felt that if I wasn't welcome and I spoke
English well then how were they going to feel amongst these people if
they don't show welcome at all? Respect. Respect. That's the most important
thing."
The influence of the media
We asked how participants
feel about the media.
"Humiliation.
When they have talk back radio, we get so much dispute.""I always call
up but they don't talk to me. Usually I listen to it and I get so angry
because we are not treated fairly. They're just assuming things that
are not true. And they keep on saying it, the silly thing is, so that
people just start believing it.""We do go out
and talk but we're only a drop in the ocean. But then after you hang
up the phone they start the same thing, they don't stop. As soon as
you finish the discussion on the phone, the interview with the talk
back announcers or whatever; you know, they're very nice with you on
the phone and then you hang up the phone and it's like they ignore everything
you have said."
Causes of discrimination
We asked whether
women in hijab are more at risk than others.
"If my daughter
did wear a hijab I'm certain that things will all be different because
my oldest daughter before she put on the scarf she didn't used to experience
anything. But now that she has she gets abused or stared at all the
time. I don't think if I wasn't wearing the hijab a man would walk past
me in the street and tell me to go back to my own country."
Reporting discrimination
We asked whether
any participants had experience of formally reporting or complaining about
the incidents.
"We don't say
anything to anyone about what happens to us because we are nervous about
bringing attention to ourselves.""I like to
speak back. Why should we be afraid? When we came to this country we
were welcomed. They weren't.""If we called
the police they can't protect us."
What more could be done
to fight anti-Arab and anti-Muslim prejudice and discrimination?
Public education and education
for service providers
Participants suggested
that the general public and especially service providers need to be educated
about Arab and Muslim culture and religious practice and about anti-discrimination
laws.
"Cultural education
is very important - about culture. Education to everybody, all human
beings in Australia, should be implemented; everywhere you go like at
schools, in the workplaces. Eg: people who perform their prayers in
their workplaces. Why do people stare at them like this? Why do they
pray at such a time? People should be educated and plus, the police
force should have more knowledge of how to deal with the non-English
speaking people.""But the problem
is that we can go to all groups in government offices but the thing
is some people are just racist, they don't want to know the truth, they
don't want to hear you, and they don't want to know about you."
Education in the Muslim community
"I think a
lot of mothers have to educate their children to grow up to be good
examples of Muslims because our kids are more outside in the public,
so they should have the proper image of Islam. It's our responsibility
as well to teach our kids manners, values and deeds."
Complaint bodies
"There should
be a body, a body to complain to. I know that [there is an Ombudsman]
but when you go up to the police station and tell them I want to speak
to someone who is in charge, I want to make a complaint. I can do it
in writing but they say 'He's not here. He's not in the office.' They
start to go away from the subject. You need someone who's going to respond
to you on the spot.""There has
to be someone to enforce the law properly. There has to be a watchdog."
Muslim role models
"I think it
would be good to encourage Muslim female police officers. It would be
nice to have as many as we can so people can see that it's nothing wrong
to be a police officer.""It also
depends on how strong they are in Islam. Once they get into the force
they forget where they came from. It's not always a good thing."
"There are
though very good police officers who are dedicated to the community."
